i hate womyn
This is not an issue I’m particularly well versed in, and probably not qualified to start a debate on, but something related to the topic pissed me off last week - enough to inspire this little rant:
A week ago in Social Studies, we were discussing the reason for differences between avg. salary for men and women. I’m arguing that this is mostly a result of women choosing jobs that pay less, such as ones within health care, in addition to that more women are less careerdriven, and rather family-focused, than men are. I end it with asking whether there’s examples of a woman holding the same position as a man, but being paid less - something I state would be extremely unfair and discriminatory.
The girl sitting next to me turns and looks at me, and says I need to stop being such a feminist.
fem·i·nism (fěm’ə-nĭz’əm) noun
1. Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.
Shit, I’m not even close to identifying as a feminist, and I’m far from advocating the issue, but by dictionary definition - why would being a feminist bring negative connotations? Do anyone really want to go back to living in a time where women stayed in the kitchen making sammiches? I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but I’m quite enjoying my right to vote and my right to equal education. If you agree with me on that particular issue, you are per definition a feminist. I don’t think that’s something one should be ashamed of.
The stereotype of butch, man-hating feminists seem to have originated from the radical feminists, a movement which to me appears to be less about equalization and more about revenge against men. Hell, I’m as feminine as they come, if you judge by vanity, attraction to babies/puppies/baby pandas, fondness of the color pink, etcetera. However, this doesn’t stop me from being extremely ambitious, someone who’s dream is getting a good degree and a better job. If that makes me a feminist, then let be it. I would happen to find it extremely unfair if someone could earn more than me only because that someone has a cock, but apparently that viewpoint makes me unique among my classmates.
On a related topic, this reminds me of the BitingBeaver and the whole “my son looks at porn, I should have aborted him” drama. The link goes to Encyclopedia Dramatica, is NSFW, and should be taken with a grain of salt, but the topic is definitely fascinating and worth a read. Both for the amusement and the intrigue.
I’m female and I can’t comprehend this kind of hate. Sure men can be assholes some of the time, but for the most part I think guys are awesome. Plus women can be far meaner and nastier in their own ways. What drives someone to such unthinking animosity towards the opposite gender that they’d despise their own son for jerking it to porn? –A user at SA forums
^ Quoted for truth. (and slightly because I had to create a blockquote style just for this entry, so I want to show it off some more. ;D )
>I end it with asking whether there’s examples of a woman holding the same position as a man, but being paid less - something I state would be extremely unfair and discriminatory.
Well… that happens a lot of the time over here, though it is starting to change in some places. It *is* extremely under and it’s discriminatory, but people still get away with it… :(
Posted by Rachael, March 19th, 2008I’d definitely be incredibly pissed off about being branded as “too feminist” as if it’s a BAD thing. I agree with you that, unbelievably, to this day, people still think feminists are horrible men-hating, bra-burning people of yesteryear. Sure there are probably still some of those around but feminism as a concept has really taken off and have developed into some very sophisticated, mature, thought-provoking arguments and most importantly, have really developed an emphasis on gender equality through identification of discrimination that is gender based.
Posted by Belinda, March 19th, 2008People don’t seem to understand the meaning of feminism. If you’re a feminist, it doesn’t mean you hate men! It just means that you think men and women should have equal rights, opportunities, and treatment.
Posted by Clem, March 19th, 2008Also, here’s an example of sexism: my friend’s mom is at the top level of her architectural firm, yet she’s paid less than the men who are on the bottom level - how is that justifiable?
“Er du feminist, eller?” - den typen utsagn er så utbredt no for tida, og det gjer meg forbanna. Det har blitt ein metode for å avvæpne alle argument for likestilling, fordi ingen har lyst til å framstå som typ Ottar-feminist…
I find the term “womyn” ridiculous, same as I find man-hating to be completely counter-productive. I identify very much as a feminist. And because I do, I feel the need to point out that the reason women choose jobs that are paid less, is because they are traditional “woman jobs”; and because they are traditional woman jobs, they are paid less. It’s not so much the women’s fault, as it is the system who doesn’t appreciate the important work nurses and teachers do.
I’m shocked at the examples from the other commenters - I don’t understand how people can get away with paying women less for the same job. Just goes to show that the fight for equality still has a way to go. (And that people like your classmate should STFU.)
Posted by Mari, March 21st, 2008I believe that you raised a good point in your class and that your classmate was probably threatened by your assertiveness. She probably cannot distinguish between feminists who have brought on amazing perspectives and thoughts, and those bra-burning, man-hating characters. Or makes “sammiches” in her past time.
But kidding aside, personally, I don’t understand the meaning of “too feminist”. If being “too feminist” is standing up to the belief that women should be regarded with the same respect and dignity as men while being able to fully celebrate being female, then I’m guilty as charged.
I am fortunate for being able to live in a society where I know (well, at least as far as I know) I am being appreciated fully without letting gender be an issue. However, I still hope that whatever gaps there still are in gender, that there will be bridges built eventually to close them.
Posted by Id, March 22nd, 2008Feminism went to extremes to the point where it now discriminates against men, that is why there are negative connotations associated. Wanting equality is fine, but calling yourself a feminist smacks of Germain Greer and other associated ratbags who hate men.
Posted by anon, March 27th, 2008I just want to say that many get the wrong idea about feminism. From what you said in class is nothing like feminism (that women choose lower paying jobs). In the US anyway (I don’t know how it is in Norway) a woman is paid about $0.70 to the man’s $1.00 in salary for the same position. In order for a woman in the US to get a decent paying job, she must go to universities to get at least a Master’s Degree. Now, back on feminism, what it really is partially what that definition says (equality of the sexes politically, socially, and economically). It is more than that, it is also for the same equalities among different races and ethnicities. Personally, I would consider myself a feminist - I am no way a man hater and the majority of my closest friends have been men or women who are friends with mostly men. I attended a women’s college to learn and experience more things about women - even to the topic of feminism. There can be men who call themselves feminists also. I feel that the word “feminism” has been transformed because those “radicals” who do extremely negative things have titled themselves feminists. In my opinion, they are not feminists at all - they just want to switch roles with men, so that women get the $1.00 and men get the approximate $0.70 to the $1.00.
Thanks for the read, sorry for the long drawn out comment. ♥
Posted by Stephanie, April 6th, 2008